I guess If I have a question for CCP.

Where exactly is the line?

The CSMs been a joke since the beginning lol the whole REASON for it in the first place was to go to Iceland and watchdog CCP so that another T20 couldnt happen. That was impossible to start with lol

This used to be clearer to you, Lucas. You've changed.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3564714#post3564714

So Erotic is just 3 months banned, not permabanned then?

We can draw arbitrary lines all over the sandbox.

More like, continue abusing people on TS all you want, just be sure to not brag about it and also DENY EVERYTHING. .

The man is banned.

Why keep insulting him but to rub salt in the wound?

Wait, they banned him after the fact? Oh you mean that three month slap on the wrist.

Not the permaban this guy is getting.

I'll be sure to file a petition every single time someone says something mean to me on Teamspeak, Mumble or Vent.

I guess that's what this announcement means.

You will note that Kugu is still banned, despite being entirely in the right.

Ya thanks alot Kugu for giving us the CSM. If it wasn't for you Ripard Teg wouldn't have abused his position, Erotica1 wouldn't have been banned for keeping Sohkar up, causing him to be unable to control planes effectively resulting in that Malaysian Plane disappearing.

scumbags from high sec

Compared to what you people were doing? Screeching and yowling for the head of someone who had broken no rules in game?

At least none of us are spewing irl threats and racism, like so many in your camp of despicable excuses for human beings.

Some are now viewing the CSM as the bit of poop in the sand.

This is a matter for the courts not for CCP to police.

Is this serious?

CCP invited us to use our common sense in that case. Do you know what that is? Is that so hard to understand/use?

Ban Ripard Teg!

That is all.

. So if we gank some w space dwellers, they cry about it in local,

So let me get this straight, a very famous EvE Online blogger that's also a member of the CSM used his influence and power to start a witch-hunt on another player, for something that happened outside of the game that he condemns. In is moral high ground blog he harassed and persecuted the player, until a shitstorm thread started on the EvE Online forums, where he continued the witchcraft trial. The thread was closed and the player got banned.

This makes total sense to me...

I did not call anyone stupid

I have to admit that now the question has been asked it's a bit puzzling why there has been no article on TMC.

I find it a bit hard to credit that they think the goat simulator is more important, even if it has a certain novelty value.

Yup. Posts are definiately going bye-bye.

When people are calm and collected they exhibit more self control and behave in socially acceptable ways, when they lose that self control and rage out that's the point at which everything they say is true or designed to intimidate or coerce. The fact that someone uses racist language in temper in an attempt to coerce the other persons into capitulating to their demands proves that they are racist and hold racist views, otherwise they wouldn't use them.

This is what I mean when i say that you get to see the real person when they lose their temper, you see the ugly side of them that they normally hide in everyday life. It might be ugly but it's still a side of them.

I have been told truly terrible things in local whenever I have been flying a falcon or something else that attracts rage. The unkind words directed at me has caused me great distress, tears, nightmares, sleep deprivation and even thoughts of suicide.

With this official statement from CCP, can I fully expect CCP to punish these evildoers? Because I am about to go test that in practice by ganking some miner and see much they care about the rules of society afterwards.

Children are probably some of the most heartless sadistic creatures on this planet.

I

Are they really guardians at the gate or are they our jailers?

Yes, EVE is dying. You know where the door is.

I have not seen an answer to this:

So you knew this was going on. Hoe many petitions did YOU fill out?

All we need to do now is punish ripard teg by not voting for him in future csm elections, I don't want anyone crusading on my behalf, especially when his machinations are all centred on removing political opponents such as erotica1 who was about to stand as a csm candidate.

That's a copout and you know it. Well? What is ripard hiding? He's obviously hiding something since he isn't talking? But then I hear that elected officials have no hidden agendas and aren't corrupt. Amirite?

Well will wonders never cease.... I'm actually gonna have to give you a +1 for that.

Cheers

Movies are real and we should follow their example as to how to live our real lives

And to give a free pass to racial slurs and threats of real-life violence and murder so long as it's because the other guy pissed you off.

You want CCP to ban erotica1 for deliberately tormenting a player until he loses control, and then also ban the player for losing control? Is that right?

Really, you should be relieved that Sokhar hasn't been banned; it demonstrates that the GMs are capable of understanding context, and they will empathise with the circumstances, and they can tell the difference between something said in the heat of the moment and something said with actual intent. So you can relax and not worry about being banned for a trivial or flippant statement on private comms, of whatever other ridiculous scenarios are being bandied about.

Your in box was being "spammed" with those letters. How many makes "spam"? and you wrote one? Sounds like you were part of the problem.

The latest minerbumping brings clarity

All fine and dandy isn't it? Who is a sick psycho again?

D.

And if you just wish for it very, very, very, very, very hard: It still won't be

This is what is going on and your lack of outrage from it paints a sad picture of you;
What we are talking about is that CCP has condoned the bonus room and all other antics of the villains of EVE online for over 10 years. It's what sets them appart from all the other masses appeasing games, games that are a fad today but dissapear tommorow.
Now, pressurised by someone who tried petitionning Ero first, but failed to get him banned. Someone who is supposed to be the elected voice of our community. Someone on a personnal crusade to take away everything that makes EVE fun, CCP in a knee-jerk reaction banned a valuable asset to our game. No warning, no debate, just banned.
Other cases always end where the logs show nothing but only for Erotica 1 CCP makes an exception, edged on to take action by a freakin' CSM member of all people.

Who's next?

BOTTOM LINE: CCP can not refuse service to paying custommers who abide by the written rules. If CCP feels someone is crossing an imaginary boundary in their sandbox they can open dialogue with who they percieve as perpetrator by means of talking, warning and if that fails: banning.

And if you want to be an asshat, then do so. It's the one and only unique selling point we have left over all the other carebear PC crap that is available.
We can't expect new players to read all forum posts and blogs by CSM members to know how much of a villain they can be.

D.

Sure it is. Most people have stopped posting. CCP isn't responding to anything you post.

It's GG. You're sitting in the plex after the site has despawned, adamant that there is more content, that if you just wait long enough "somethingTM" will happen in favor of your argument.

By all means continue to post. The last several pages are an echo chamber for people who lost an argument but refuse to admit it. This will be an interesting EO cultural artifact years from now.

Toshiro Ozuwara proving the discussion is far from closed.

So I take it your stance on things is:
I'm perfectly fine with double, tripple standards as long as it doesn't affect my little bubble.
I'm perfectly fine with CCP stealing from people who got themselves on the shitlist of some moral crusading CSM.
I'm perfectly fine with all people who received the 'logs don't show anything' response in the past.
I'm perfectly fine with paying for stuff and not get it.
I'm perfectly fine with changing the core attraction to EVE.
I'm perfectly fine with people using racial slurs and death threats when they have their feelings hurt.
I'm perfectly fine.

Ok, that's your prerogative

I and many others aren't perfectly fine with this BS. Hence we discuss and try to come with a standpoint the CSM should recommend to CCP as the way forward.
You don't like open discussions or transparency? Nobody is forcing you to read it

D.

I would honestly like to thank you for that bit of information.. I was trying to figure out how to do that the other day to no avail.

So it is your contention then that the EULA for Eve Online extends outside of Eve online and into our personal lives and what transpires on privately-owned TS servers and non-registered blogs? Because that's pretty damn far-reaching IMO.

Hey, come on! Peen! Don't! Peen. Come on Peen. Why are you doing this Peen? This isn't you. I want the old Peen back. I don't want bad new Peen. I want good old Peen. Give me the Peen I'm used to. Give me the Peen I love.

If actual sadism was involved, I dont know what any of you would call the things that I like to think about.

Ill prolly respond more thoroughly after Ive had some sleep, but I wonder, if some nasty corp or alliance is DDoSing my corps teamspeak severs, can I ask CCP to handle the matter for me? Will they? Should they? Is it their problem?

In short...

1. Erotica 1 was 'mean' out of game to another EvE player Sohkar.

2. Sohkar did not file criminal charges of harassment et al against Erotica 1, so real world harassment has not been proven in law. Erotica 1 hasn't been convicted of anything. More telling is that Sohkar has since made it clear he does not feel Erotica 1 harrassed him.

3. Additionally, it should be noted Dominatrixes in my area charge $140 for 1/2 of willing S&M or BDSM abuse, while Erotica 1 charged Sohkar nothing. Submissives in these scenarios typically use 'safe words' to end abusive play at their choosing. Sohkar had a teamspeak disconnect button. He didn't press it.

4. Ripard Teg however felt Sohkar was 'abused', 'harassed' and 'tortured' in real life, and in his holy estimation of morality that Erotica 1 should be removed from taking part in in-game EvE gameplay.

5. Carebears and pansies joined Ripard Teg's witchhunt,

6. CCP did more 'research', six months after the event, and banned Erotica 1 from EvE online.

Now despite CCP not saying why exactly Erotica 1 was banned, and folks like Malcanis saying 'you dont have the full information', I think we have all the information we need...

By all appearances Erotica 1 was not banned because of a violation of TOS or EULA that CCP can honestly defend (or they would perhaps quote it), he was banned based on moral hand wringing by pansies and the fact people in power dont like him or his actions.

Welcome to the 'sandbox'. Be the villian...until someones feelings get hurt, then you are screwed.

p.s.
Given Ripard Teg actually made real-world accusations about Erotica 1's real-world 'torture', 'harassment' and 'abuse' of Sohkar, I would find it entertaining indeed if Erotica 1 now successfully sued Ripard for publishing slanderous libel against him. For surely if Erotica 1's actions outside of the game were real acts of 'torture', 'harassment' etc, then equally Ripards comments are actionable for libel and slander if said acts weren't provable true in court?

F

1. The out of game incident was prompted by an in game interaction which used CCP's properties, specifically the characters of the involved players
2. The EvE TOS/EULA are not meant to address criminal actions and have no place trying to do so. As such Sohkar not filing criminal charges is irrelevant.
3. I'd have hesitated pressing the disconnect button too if all my character's in game assets were in someone else' possession and doing so meant they would stay there.
4. Ripard is entitled to his opinion, just as others are entitled to disagree.

To sit back in November and say everything is ok, only to change your position a few months later amidst a witch hunt doesn't seem very consistent. If the bonus room is truly a den of evil, then why was it not dealt with back in November? Or heck even in February when this particular incident first surfaced.

If they can use the TS to ban Erotica1, why cant they use the same evidence for Sokhar?

Good for the goose = good for Gander

Cmon, Mr Epeen, I think a little deductive logic goes a long way here. The title of this thread is "An Announcment Regarding Real Life Harassment. "Real Life" implies outside of the game. The disapproved-of confrontation between E1 and Sokhar took place in Real Life. Since the only Real Life interactions there have ever been between Sokhar and E1 were on TS, I don't think there's any leap in logic to say that the "Real Life Harassment" being referred to is, dare I say it, obviously because of the TS.

It's very disingenuous of you to say that people are "spouting lies" in reference to this easy to understand fact.

edit:grammar.

IT WAS ME!

Was it?

So... is the bonus room real life harassment? Do soundcloud channels, teamspeak and player blogs count as real-life? If so, the minerbumping blog is a blatant violation as it publicly humiliates players without their consent or allow them to walk away from it!

So when they learned about it happening in their game in November....

Between then and Feb, they did nothing because...........

Cause mob justice is what we have now.

lol well I figured you would, but I may end up having to bribe someone to make the circular arguments stop

If you dont know who that is and you play this; please uninstall

Good comeback, Garth

You mean CCP and Ripard Teg. Because publicly, Sohkar is on Erotica's side on this whole issue.

He said the same thing in private conversations as he did publicly. And all of those conversations, both public and private, were done voluntarily on his part. He also stated that if the recording was enough to ban Erotica, then he deserved a ban for the things he said.

No, you do not get to pretend that he is secretly on your side when he explained very clearly that he is on Erotica's side and why that is.

therefore I automatically get to claim that he agrees with me

If I go and raise a big enough stink about it to the media, do I get to have someone banned too?

Spin, spin, spin to win.

At least, that's what it looks like you're doing

Rabble, blather, confusion.

The way it seems to be now, it's like sitting in Nandos enjoying my meal, when a guy comes running in yelling that I'm banned from the cinema since I'm eating food I didn't buy from the cinema. It'd be nice to know how far away from EVE I need to be to be able to express myself without getting retroactively punished when someone has a sad.

Which would be great, if that;'s what happened. But it's not, is it?

I'm waiting on the "Do you accept this PVP action by player ____" pop up when someone attacks you.

How exactly does that even make sense?

If anything it's the guys saying "I don't like scamming, so make the line as blurry as possible to put people off" crowd are likely to make the game carebear like. CCP should just bite the bullet, drop away non-consensual PVP in high sec, allow pay to win things like SP purchases and the like, and streamline the entire game into tiered missions, they can even call them "quests". If they continue to strip away all that makes EVE unique, that's all it will end up as anyway.

Let me try it this way, as far as I can tell this question in no way violates any rule of the forum:

The grounds as outlined seem very broad and vague. What assurance do we have that this will not be abused?

but in the US at least,

Thus far, Courts have generally ruled in favor of the company .

The big question here is where does CCP's jurisdiction end?